Ask Shadowman: Ye Olde Linux Desktop
by Shadowman
Greetings, faithful readers. Shadowman knows it’s been a while since he’s sent some love your way, but he’s been busy. Places to go, people to see, things to do, yadda yadda. Shadowman won’t bore you with the details. Here’s what matters now: Shadowman is reporting live from the Red Hat Summit, bringing you the interesting topics of the day. Kind of like Edward R. Murrow, except without all the bombs and killing and stuff.
Got a question for Shadowman? Email him.
The entire world asks:
So Dell decided to ship Ubuntu on the desktop. Doesn’t that bother you guys at all?
To which Shadowman responds:
Let’s go back a few years, to the dawn of the Linux desktop.
Some of you may remember a guy named Havoc Pennington. Those of you who can remember the murky past of the Linux desktop will recall that Havoc was one of the founders of the GNOME Foundation. He was also its first chairman. He also founded freedesktop.org, to help bring together the GNOME and KDE communities through the shared and comforting love of open desktop standards. He was kind of a rock star.
It’s not like Havoc went anywhere. It’s not like he retired from the game, like some sort of geek Sandy Koufax in his prime. He’s still at Red Hat. Which might make one wonder: if Havoc Pennington is still at Red Hat, then why isn’t Red Hat like, totally owning the desktop?
Funny thing about experience, and how it shapes your beliefs. Nobody spent more time trying to bridge the divide between Linux and Windows than Havoc Pennington did. And after all those years, what did Havoc conclude?
His widely circulated quote on the matter: “It’s easier to win on user value than it is to match technical castles of unbounded size.” You can Google it.
So what does this quizzical expression mean? To Shadowman, it means a couple of things.
First, it’s the articulation of a view, gained through years of experience, that matching the incumbent feature-for-feature is inherently a losing proposition — especially when there are a number of areas where Linux will never, ever completely catch up. How many of you, gentle readers, still dual-boot Windows systems to play games? And has that changed substantially from five years ago? Ten years ago?
Second, it’s a compelling argument that the real way to win the battle for “the desktop” is to change the battleground itself, and not necessarily to a ground where current Linux users will expect. The best desktop minds at Red Hat are now focused on pursuing Havoc’s line of inquiry: “win on user value”.
Where is “user value” now? Online, that’s where. And moreso with every passing day.
Example number one: One Laptop Per Child. Example number two: Mugshot. The goal of each: to fundamentally remake the “desktop” experience to exploit the “always connected” reality of computing today.
Crazy ambitious? Yep. But you should have heard Brian Stevens talk about that ambition this morning, and how single-mindedly Red Hat engineers are pursuing it.
Chris Blizzard and Havoc Pennington both did their time as champions of Ye Olde Linux Desktop. Now they are leading the way to the New Online Desktop: Mr. Blizzard in OLPC-land, and Mr. Pennington in Mugshot-land. And if this means that Ubuntu claims a perceived high ground in Ye Olde Linux Desktop — at least for now — then so be it.
To many, this sounds like surrender. It’s not. Shadowman is continually amazed by the people who assume that Red Hat just doesn’t care about the consumer desktop, and how easily people assume that Red Hat doesn’t have the chops to compete for the consumer desktop, and how Red Hat isn’t smart enough to see Ubuntu coming.
When Shadowman hears about the Dell survey that (allegedly) led to Dell’s decision to preload Ubuntu, he can’t help but think of the old quote from Henry Ford: “If I’d asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for a better horse.”
Microsoft is not afraid of Ubuntu, folks. They are afraid of the pretty green toy that will teach kids a fundamentally new way of using technology. They are afraid of online services, and the explosion of collaboration that those services will enable.
Look at the big Microsoft stories in the news recently. Big story number one: Windows licenses for $3 in the developing world, trying to counter OLPC. Big story number two: the potential purchase of Yahoo, trying to counter Google and their gigantic lead in online services.
So let Ubuntu take the lead in building the better horse. They’ve earned that lead, and good on them. Meanwhile, at Red Hat, the desktop engineers are working day and night to invent the automobile. And the first model T is almost ready to roll off the line.
Ubuntu fanboys: flame away. Shadowman loves you all regardless. And you know this, man.
May 10th, 2007 at 2:10 am
Disclaimer: I am an Ubuntu fanboy. Kubuntu, to be exact. So, I start my flaming now: gee, I wish you are right.
As far as I’m concerned, I already use that “better horse” and I am very happy with it. Still, if Red Hat manages to pull the “model T” out of the (red) hat, I will be the first to cheer. And I am sure I would not be the only one.
May 10th, 2007 at 3:08 am
I too am a rider of the “better horse”, but only for the fact that the “model T” has not been released yet. I among countless others have been waiting for a long time to see where Linux desktop computing will go, beyond XFree and Xorg.
Show me an easier, quicker way to get the most out of my desktop and I am sold.
May 10th, 2007 at 4:56 am
Do you really think Ubuntu’s popularity is based on trying to match Microsoft’s feature set? If so, you’re not really in touch with what’s going on there. Ubuntu is striving to be usable. I made numerous attempts to switch from Windows to Linux over the years, and almost always to a Red Hat variant. I discovered Ubuntu and I’ve been running (K)ubuntu for a couple of years now, and do not dual boot back to Windows.
I like revolutionary new and cool things, but more than that I like to be able to use my computer. I repeat, I like to USE my computer. Ubuntu has allowed me to do that while freeing myself from the Windows grind. This issue of usability is why Vista is turning out to be such a mistake for MS - people can’t run the thing; putting it on their computers is making them unusable.
Good luck with wherever Red Hat is going - there is certainly room in the desktop world for choice, and winning is not about “beating” the other guys. But I’m not riding a horse here - I’m using a computer.
May 10th, 2007 at 4:56 am
are you saying we want to do everything with a browser ?
Is that your proposition so far ?
I think that’s what the pepperpad does (I never tested this)
Does it works better so far than the old way of doing applications? I don’t think I will one day play with a brush and painting tools within any browser like interface.
I like native applications. Maybe you can’t catch the castle, but do you need one ?
A little house will be fine. Thanks
May 10th, 2007 at 6:05 am
Interesting thought. However, for the time being at least, ‘always connected’ computing is a fantasy. I live in the UK (hardly 3rd world) and yet outside of my house it is still difficult to get online when you wish to. Unless you want to live in Starbucks that is.
May 10th, 2007 at 6:19 am
First of all; it’s not about “Beating” Microsoft or Apple, it’s just about freeing the user and its experience using the new information technologies. Mr Shadowman; google did not invented a new web, google did just optimized it for the end user like all of us. So creating a real Desktop linux is just about optimizing the current Desktop linux, and that’s what the whole Ubuntu community is trying to do now.
One last thing, I think that all Linux Distros are doing a good job and the real battle is not against Microsoft, Apple or even the development policy of one Disto or another; the real battle is against software patents that obliged Fedora Core -among other Distros- to be so classic and multimedia NOT ready. Thanks
May 10th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Don’t be a stranger. I’ve been missing my s’man monthly fix. I was afraid you’d been “web 2.0′d” out of existance or something. I second that Redmond fears the OLPC box. Why else would they circulate laughable rumors about running MS bloatware on it?
May 10th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Sleepy Red Hat, fire-up your developers instead of telling us about your dreamy visions. We know you gave up on the home user when you spun off Fedora, but what was the purpose when you let SUSE catch up in the server market. Don’t think you can sell the online desktop dream because it has been tried and flopped before. Any operating system will always be about interfacing the hardware (or virtualized hardware) with the applications. Wake up and start expanding those capabilities.
Brace yourself for the upcoming Ubuntu in the enterprise. Realize Ubuntu is taking the Windows approach to the data center: releasing the desktop operating system and building their server-side solutions around those entrenched standards. Abre los ojos.
May 10th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
RedHat is always the FUD…
The garbage talker…
And the one that commit errors…
Remember the time when you(Havoc) don’t like mono?(Fedora now includes mono… jaja)
Remember the Microsoft-Novell partnership?… Open SuSE still up(and too Up) your Fedora in Distrowach…
Remember the Web 2.0 awards?… Mugshot didn’t show up.
So RedHat you are only a *Garbage Talker* and a the only one that start the FUD on OpenSource.
BTW: Why you always talk about Microsoft? look at your self… look at the track, and *don’t* look at the others competitors!
May 11th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
I never thought RedHat would be flip-flopping. I was a loyal user up through RH9 where it was decided that the server niche would be more fulfilling to RedHat as a business. This is understandable. I went on to Slackware and then Arch myself. But what I don’t understand is why now? Why after the success of Mark’s brainchild? This should have happened in Redhat a few years ago. If you really think the “how” of the success of others is paramount you might as well pack your bags fanboy.
Regardless, good luck. You are really going to need it. That and I’m guessing more hardware updates from your *buntu/Suse target audience once this released.
Yay, just another distro to add to the list.
May 11th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
eagle says:
“Sleepy Red Hat, fire-up your developers instead of telling us about your dreamy visions.”
^^ Here Here ^^
if “Shadowman” is the official spokesperson of Redhat ( as i assume he is since we don’t hear anyone else giving us Redhat’s stance ), then taking this road is total bullsh*t! I’ve been using Redhat now since RH8 and this attitude of ignoring it’s users or mis-interpreting its users really pisses me off and only makes me want look elsewhere.
May 11th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
“Why after the success of Mark’s brainchild?”
Because, Mark’s “brainchild” is based on Red Hat’s contributions.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions
Mark’s “brainchild” distribution installs proprietary drivers by default which is legally dubious. I don’t think anyone honestly supporting open source software wants such sneaky stuff.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Okay, the usual off the cuff remark with a link doesnt really say much here. A lot of people contribute all around in all camps. Quite a few thousand contributions have been made to help Fedora make the contributions you link to. It goes on and on, you should know that.
If you want to yell .ogg thats fine. Proprietary driver inclusion was their choice. If you dont like it use something else. Thats what I did.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
I say I am still new to Linux. I finished my adventure with Red Hat after RH9, but there is Fedora (if you need workstation). Thanks :) I think it does not matter. The question is “Do you like strawberries with sugar or cream or maybe both?” But Linux is Linux. That is all. I just think sometimes when it will become commercial as I can see some try to give only sugar or cram. If you like a strawberry you have to pay…
May 11th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
All this hoopla ignores the fact that Fedora Core 6 works well on the desktop, and the smolt data shows a lot of Fedora users on laptops. Red Hat needs to make sure that it’s investing enough in the desktop to avoid losing ground.
Oh, I’m certainly excited about OLPC, and salute the developers for doing something truly innovative. Mugshot? Yawn. There are about 20 versions of the same thing out there, all competing for VC money.
Havoc gets to choose how to spend his time, but it’s sad that he got distracted from things that matter, to things that don’t.
May 12th, 2007 at 2:17 am
Yup, without http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions and Debian, Ubuntu won’t exist. Period. After all, Ubuntu is a simple ‘prettified’ copy of Debian lead by an ignorant and arrogant millionarie that thinks he’s the new “Linux messiah” or something similar with his absurd dissertations. Pfff.
Ubuntu’s unique merit was to ship a gazillion number of free copies to the whole world (shipit) in a massive marketing campaign. Their technical merits or innovations nowadays?: None, zero, cero. Geeze, even its bug tracker is closed source :P. Oh yes, it’s famous too for trying to ship closed and binary kernel modules/drivers and keep saying that it was ‘the right thing to do’. That’s what I call lazyness: taking the easy and short path.
Sorry, but i can’t respect a distro that only copies the technical merits and innovations of others and ‘autoproclamate’ itself as the ‘Linux revolution’ or a similar shit. Sorry, I can’t.
May 12th, 2007 at 7:36 am
“Quite a few thousand contributions have been made to help Fedora make the contributions you link to”
That’s exactly my point. Can you name the major engineering changes of Ubuntu that is widely accepted by other distributions?
“. Proprietary driver inclusion was their choice. If you dont like it use something else”
Proprietary drivers by default, lying about that in several places in their website, Proprietary bug tracking system, attacks on opensuse for violating the spirit of the license while directly being involved in something that does that in their own distribution, lying about Fedora not receiving security updates. The list goes on.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:55 am
I agree with Igor, RH needs to keep it’s nose to the grindstone and lay off the rhetoric. Seeing them take such a defensive stance might serve to convince some people that they’ve lost their vision.
A simple “Good for Ubuntu, we’re still working hard here” post would have been more productive.
May 12th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
(Discloser: I am a Fedora Users, take that as you will)
@Jef: “That’s exactly my point. Can you name the major engineering changes of Ubuntu that is widely accepted by other distributions?”
The only thing that springs to mind is Upstart, a small bit of tech that even Fedora is looking into adopting. Mind you, that is pre-alpha at best…
That aside, i don’t think that this ‘Shadowman’ is doing much by 1) dragging MS’s name into the open and 2) preaching to the Ubuntu choir. It’s rather counter productive.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:55 am
An “Online Desktop” could only be like a Model T if the Model T’s had been built with cameras in them. I may still lose some privacy by just doing the few things I do online, but at least I have a virtual corner to hide in with my old school desktop when I want to.
“Online Desktop” is equivalent to “constant privacy invasion”, and only exhibitionists are into that kind of thing.
September 29th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
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December 17th, 2007 at 4:34 am
I just want to see the shadowmen.